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[Music]

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[Applause]

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this is somewhere in the skies Branzburg

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today is a very special day for

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somewhere in the skies because somehow

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and some way I was able to get two of my

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biggest inspirations in the UFO field in

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one digital room together for what is

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going to be an amazing conversation I

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have no doubt I have with me past guest

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professor and author Diana Walsh

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Basilica and first-time guest journalist

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and author Leslie Kane thank you so so

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much to the both of you for being here

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so before we we sort of dive in here

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today I wanted to give those in my

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audience who may be new to the whole UFO

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thing or just hopping in on this episode

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um sort of a refresher for the UFO buffs

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out there and a little crash course for

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the newbies in the work that you two are

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primarily known for in the UFO world

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so I guess Diana would you mind telling

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us a little about who you are and what

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your book American cosmic was all about

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sure so I am a professor of Religious

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Studies at the University of North

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Carolina in Wilmington and I wrote

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American cosmic religion UFOs and

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technology and it's a it's kind of a

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crazy journey through Silicon Valley's

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entrepreneurs or techno careers really

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and how they believe in UFOs and even

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have believed that they have UFO part

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and back engineer them and things like

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that but it's also about technology and

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it's an impact on us and the creation of

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religions and things like that

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and it is also a huge contributor in the

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last few years I would say to the

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overall UFO conversation and bringing it

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to the mainstream and I don't think

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anyone really knows that better than

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Lesley you've done so much amazing work

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in and out of the UFO research world but

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if you wouldn't mind could you maybe

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tell us a little about your book ufos

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generals pilots and government officials

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go on the record and also the co-written

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article you release the new york times

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which in my opinion i'm sure others

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agree along with Diana's book has moved

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ufos more into the mainstream than ever

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before so yeah can you give us a little

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bit about all that you've done leslie

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my best seller and then headed forward

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by John Podesta and it included chapters

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written by a lot of really impressive

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people who I was fortunate ISM we're

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willing to contribute to the book and it

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just presents the kind of hardcore best

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evidence for the reality of the

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phenomenon and and I think it really

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established that in a very solid way so

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case studies and interviews and analysis

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and all of that and these chapters are

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inviting people themselves which make it

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really powerful it was started the

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culmination of ten years of reporting

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that I had done on UFOs prior to that

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and so fast forward another ten years to

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the present I co-authored two stories

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for the New York Times which to me was

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like the pinnacle of my career because I

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would have never expected to be able to

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do that and I if I could have picked one

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paper that would be the one so December

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September 20 17th was the first story

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and then I hear listeners are probably

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familiar with it where we broke the news

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about the Pentagon UFO program would

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have been secret until then and then in

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2019 we did another story about Navy

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pilots who reported sightings of UFOs

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off the USS Roosevelt in 2015 and we

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also included videos with those stories

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official Pentagon videos which made them

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particularly I think back a lot of what

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the draw was for people so that's my

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work in the nutshell and I mean once

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this story hit Leslie it just it

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completely changed the way we talk about

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UFOs in and out of the mainstream and

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even for the UFO community in general so

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I'm sure some of our listeners would

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would be curious to know how did the New

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York Times article come about and what

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was it like after the article went live

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for you expecting to get this sort of

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response that you did or how did this

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all come about the origins story as it

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were well what happened was I was

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invited when when I was invited to a

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meeting with Lou Elizondo who was the

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person who was the head of this program

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our whatever your designation you want

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to call it he sort of led the program

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the whole time it from 2020 2007 until

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the time he left which

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in 2017 so it was ten years and

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literally the day that he resigned from

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that position I was called down by some

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of his associates to Washington DC to

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meet with him and so I met with him and

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three other people who were close to him

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these were two of them were people I had

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known for a long time and people who are

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associated with the program and worked

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with him and was shown the videos was

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shown a lot of information I got to talk

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to him for a long time to Elizondo and I

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think part of the reason for that was to

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see if there might be something there

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that could go to the New York Times and

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I was without doubt I recognized

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immediately the power of this story and

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I was completely blown away by having

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that opportunity and by realizing what

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this meant that you know what we were

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going to be able to expose if we could

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indeed get it into the New York Times so

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without taking any information with me

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but I was seeing stuff that has since

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been made public over over the time

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period between men and now and even more

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stuff that hasn't been made public I

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went to my colleague Ralph Blumenthal

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who I've worked with before on New York

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Times stuff and he was on the staff

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there for many years he's now a

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freelancer for the time so he he's the

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one that had the door into the times we

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took the story to a lead investor the

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editor for investigations from

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Washington DC who happened to be in New

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York sat down and had a meeting with him

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his name is Mark Mazzetti and just laid

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everything out on the table for him and

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pitched the story basically and he said

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I'm taking it to Washington I'll get

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back to you in a week

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and we got the call in a week let's go

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for it so that's how it all started and

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our editor was the head of the

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Washington bureau so she's a really

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prominent person within the paper and we

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were assigned to work with Helene Cooper

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who is the hope you know a prize-winning

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reporter for The Times who covers the

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Pentagon she is the person who knows the

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Pentagon so we couldn't ask for a better

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person to work with and so that's how it

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started and then we spent a couple of

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months doing the work you have to do to

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make

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story and lots of rounds of editing it

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was you know a difficult process but we

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just kept our goal in mind and then it

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came out and so that's sort of that's

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how the whole thing happened and the

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videos were provided by a source that

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I'm I'm not in a position to name right

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now but I think pretty soon that sources

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name is Konami he's gonna probably

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reveal who he is because everything else

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is coming out but I don't want to be the

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one to do that so that's that's a big

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part of what the two of you the

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information you're bringing forward

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isn't easy to get access to and you are

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getting this information with the you

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know the firm deal with these people

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that they will not be named and that's

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that's how these things work and I think

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that's what makes what both of you are

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doing extremely vital to to what gets

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out there and also the fact that Leslie

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I mean the article came out and it

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really caught the Pentagon by surprise

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and they didn't really know what to say

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and now we see their statements changing

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constantly when it comes to this UFO

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question and where they lay in all of

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this so whenever you look for articles

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on what's going on with a tip and the

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Pentagon and and all these different

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people involved you both your name's

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Diana and Leslie keep showing up in the

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same articles and I think for those out

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there who read all those we've noticed

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that the work you two do it intersects

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and really unique in interesting ways

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so what I kind of wanted to do today

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with the both of you is just stretch out

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have a conversation you know we're so

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used to these interviews where it's

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question answer question answer but I'd

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rather just kind of open it up to the

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both of you and see where we laid now in

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2020 when it comes to the UFO question

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so maybe Leslie would you could you

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maybe tell us a little about how you and

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Diana first got connected and maybe a

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little about why you think the work that

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you two are doing complements one

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another in the overall UFO question I

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think Diana we first Ralph and I

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actually contacted Diana because we were

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given advance copies of her book

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complete

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recognized the importance of that book

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right away we were trying to find a way

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that maybe be able to do a New York

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Times story around the book but you know

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and then I remember too as this

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journalist before I even met Diana I was

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of course trying to figure out who some

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of these anonymous characters were in

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her book because we thought to write

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about the need for the New York Times we

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would need that but then I realized

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there is no way even if I find out who

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they are that I would ever ever put

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their names out there and then gradually

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Diana and I just started having

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conversations and emails and we know

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some of the same people and we just got

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to know each other better and better

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over time and we met in New York for the

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first time I forget when it was Diana

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not too long ago so um yeah I think I

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mean one place you know one one issue

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that you raised Ryan that is very

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similar for both of us is having to deal

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with very high-level people with a lot

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of knowledge who will not be named

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and of course Diana's book was based on

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two characters like that so that might

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be in China you'd I need to subscribe

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what that was like

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it's against what I do as an academic to

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not reveal sources I mean with us what

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we do is academic because academics is

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we reveal sources so I had to get used

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to just being you know I've been doing

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this since 2012 and so I had to get used

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to not to actually being okay with not

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reviewing people's names because it

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could get them in trouble you know I

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don't want to do that but I also want to

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write about the topic I do remember the

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very day the very where I was it's one

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of those things for me when Leslie's and

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her friend at the New York Times came

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out in 2017 during Christmas you know

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the Christmas holidays and it was giant

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I mean I couldn't even believe well

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first I already knew about Leslie's book

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and I when I taught courses I have a

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section called new religious movements

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and I would use her book as text in my

272
00:11:32,180 --> 00:11:29,970
classes and the students loved it you

273
00:11:33,049 --> 00:11:32,190
know it's like it's one of the top five

274
00:11:36,199 --> 00:11:33,059
books ever

275
00:11:39,349 --> 00:11:36,209
about UFOs and it's just such a concise

276
00:11:40,699 --> 00:11:39,359
book and there's nothing there's no BS

277
00:11:42,769 --> 00:11:40,709
in the book you know it's really

278
00:11:46,369 --> 00:11:42,779
straightforward and you can't really

279
00:11:48,829 --> 00:11:46,379
argue with it and so this is the book I

280
00:11:50,719 --> 00:11:48,839
would use and so then I read this I

281
00:11:53,239 --> 00:11:50,729
remember the day I read I remember just

282
00:11:55,789 --> 00:11:53,249
reading it and and reading it again and

283
00:11:57,799 --> 00:11:55,799
then everybody of course who had

284
00:12:00,049 --> 00:11:57,809
anything to do with UFOs went crazy

285
00:12:02,269 --> 00:12:00,059
about it and the general public I got

286
00:12:06,199 --> 00:12:02,279
phone calls from people from Harvard who

287
00:12:08,929 --> 00:12:06,209
used to dismiss what I did and all of a

288
00:12:10,459 --> 00:12:08,939
sudden were asking me about my sources

289
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:10,469
and things like that and how they could

290
00:12:15,429 --> 00:12:12,569
get involved in the research so you know

291
00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:15,439
it opened the door for legitimate

292
00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:18,929
scholarship into this area so Blumenthal

293
00:12:27,259 --> 00:12:23,849
and Leslie did this and so it was huge

294
00:12:28,789 --> 00:12:27,269
and I couldn't believe it and everything

295
00:12:30,139 --> 00:12:28,799
changed after that I mean my book I

296
00:12:33,049 --> 00:12:30,149
don't even think had come out yet it

297
00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:33,059
came out in 2019 so yeah my book wasn't

298
00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:35,459
out advance copies had gone out to

299
00:12:40,099 --> 00:12:37,529
people I didn't know that that Leslie

300
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:40,109
and Ralph got an advance copy and we had

301
00:12:45,949 --> 00:12:42,569
a series of conversations in which we

302
00:12:48,709 --> 00:12:45,959
talked about you know the the question

303
00:12:52,609 --> 00:12:48,719
of sources and why they can't be known

304
00:12:54,859 --> 00:12:52,619
and we also knew that this is something

305
00:12:58,429 --> 00:12:54,869
that a lot of people would would

306
00:13:00,589 --> 00:12:58,439
critique us for and get angry about and

307
00:13:02,989 --> 00:13:00,599
that type of thing but we can't ignore

308
00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:02,999
the fact that this phenomena which I'm

309
00:13:06,409 --> 00:13:04,769
looking at from the religious studies

310
00:13:09,169 --> 00:13:06,419
angle and which Leslie looks out from

311
00:13:11,659 --> 00:13:09,179
the investigative journalist angle you

312
00:13:13,069 --> 00:13:11,669
know once we understand that we also

313
00:13:15,259 --> 00:13:13,079
have to understand there will be things

314
00:13:17,119 --> 00:13:15,269
that we can't know yeah I mean that's a

315
00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:17,129
really good point Diana that well we're

316
00:13:21,439 --> 00:13:19,019
you know we're getting these bread

317
00:13:23,119 --> 00:13:21,449
crumbs here and there and the people

318
00:13:25,969 --> 00:13:23,129
that the two of you are willing to talk

319
00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:25,979
to you can only give you so much it's

320
00:13:31,119 --> 00:13:28,889
it's a step in a direction that I don't

321
00:13:34,159 --> 00:13:31,129
think we've really ever seen before and

322
00:13:36,319 --> 00:13:34,169
this kind of brings me to to an

323
00:13:38,269 --> 00:13:36,329
interesting question from one of our

324
00:13:41,179 --> 00:13:38,279
listeners on Twitter that what I would

325
00:13:42,799 --> 00:13:41,189
love to interject here that has to do

326
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:42,809
with both of you Diana after being

327
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:46,440
immersed in you know UFO fight clubs

328
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:48,510
you know for a while do you feel that

329
00:13:53,750 --> 00:13:51,090
Tyler and James these two people who you

330
00:13:57,140 --> 00:13:53,760
know remain anonymous to most of the

331
00:13:59,360 --> 00:13:57,150
public do you believe that that you were

332
00:14:02,270 --> 00:13:59,370
sort of when they came forward with the

333
00:14:05,420 --> 00:14:02,280
information they gave you that this was

334
00:14:09,620 --> 00:14:05,430
all sort of planned or that American

335
00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:09,630
cosmic was used to reveal certain things

336
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:11,460
that they wanted to get out to the

337
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:12,810
public how much do you think the people

338
00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:15,600
that were in your book how much you were

339
00:14:19,490 --> 00:14:17,880
in control in how much they were in

340
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:19,500
control of what was going on if that

341
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:23,010
makes any sense it makes a lot of sense

342
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:25,170
that's I've actually talked about that

343
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:27,510
in the book because you know James is an

344
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:29,790
academic and I bring him to the desert

345
00:14:36,830 --> 00:14:33,210
with me you know when we go there to an

346
00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:36,840
alleged crash site of UFO and we kind of

347
00:14:41,150 --> 00:14:39,030
confer and what we don't kind of confer

348
00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:41,160
we confer and we say are we being set up

349
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:43,620
you know is this a setup and the

350
00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:46,740
question is that the I mean the answer

351
00:14:53,540 --> 00:14:49,950
is that in a sense this is this is

352
00:14:57,020 --> 00:14:53,550
information that was that needed to get

353
00:15:00,140 --> 00:14:57,030
out and that a certain group wanted to

354
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:00,150
get out however I am an academic with

355
00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:02,250
integrity I've never I've never done

356
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:04,740
anything in my career so far that has

357
00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:07,050
been something against my own academic

358
00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:11,280
ethics and so I agreed like I agreed to

359
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,350
say okay you could be sued on you know

360
00:15:18,860 --> 00:15:16,320
you can you can have a pseudonym and I

361
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:18,870
won't reveal who you are and you will

362
00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:20,730
let me into your world and show me

363
00:15:26,690 --> 00:15:23,160
things and I think that they wanted the

364
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:26,700
public to see I don't think they thought

365
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:29,310
that this would get out as big as it got

366
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:31,890
out honestly and go though in certain

367
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:33,930
direction that it's gone

368
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:35,040
you know there's that unintended

369
00:15:39,890 --> 00:15:37,290
consequences type of thing that happens

370
00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:39,900
but I do think that you know this was a

371
00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:42,150
collaboration with people and we all

372
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:44,339
made agreements even Oxford University

373
00:15:46,850 --> 00:15:44,880
Press

374
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:46,860
you know we made a we made agreements

375
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:50,339
that we would keep certain things that

376
00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:51,690
they wanted us to keep and we would

377
00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:53,070
reveal certain things and the only

378
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:54,120
reason we would keep certain things

379
00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:57,420
quiet is is to protect human beings you

380
00:16:03,740 --> 00:16:00,540
know to protect people and so I

381
00:16:07,010 --> 00:16:03,750
to be part of the whole project and this

382
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:07,020
kind of this ties into a question I have

383
00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:08,970
for you Leslie this actually comes from

384
00:16:14,690 --> 00:16:12,270
a scientist that listens to our show the

385
00:16:17,330 --> 00:16:14,700
mad scientist podcast Chris Cogswell on

386
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:17,340
Twitter he asks you Leslie do you have

387
00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:20,730
any further information on how Bob

388
00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:22,680
Bigelow steam was vetted by the

389
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:24,990
government during their bidding with a

390
00:16:29,210 --> 00:16:26,730
tip and all sap and all these programs

391
00:16:32,540 --> 00:16:29,220
are learning about how much do you know

392
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:32,550
about how Bob Bigelow was connected to

393
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:35,370
all this and where they stand today with

394
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:37,920
with what's going on and the information

395
00:16:43,130 --> 00:16:39,530
then that's been brought forward

396
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:43,140
basically you know Bob Bigelow was a

397
00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:45,870
colleague and friend of Harry Reid's and

398
00:16:50,510 --> 00:16:48,180
Senator Harry Reid was instrumental in

399
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:50,520
setting up the program but as I what I

400
00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:53,250
was told as I understand it was anyone

401
00:16:57,290 --> 00:16:55,140
could have applied so what happened was

402
00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:57,300
they had a budget to hire an independent

403
00:17:01,520 --> 00:16:59,130
contractor who was going to sort of

404
00:17:03,260 --> 00:17:01,530
oversee all the research that was going

405
00:17:06,140 --> 00:17:03,270
to be done in connection with the eight

406
00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:06,150
chip program and any number of people

407
00:17:10,430 --> 00:17:07,800
could have applied for that it was an

408
00:17:12,410 --> 00:17:10,440
open open deal there and Bob Bigelow

409
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:12,420
applied and he ended up getting the

410
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:14,850
contract and I actually seen the

411
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:17,250
document in which he was granted that

412
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:19,530
contract and you know there would be

413
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:22,650
nothing kind of strange or weird about

414
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:24,780
it he just went through the process that

415
00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:26,490
that anybody would go through who was

416
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:29,160
applying for that and he was very well

417
00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:31,170
suited for it because he had a

418
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:33,140
background in this field

419
00:17:38,990 --> 00:17:35,640
he had facilities that would have

420
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:39,000
allowed him to do a lot of work he knew

421
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:42,210
a lot of people and basically what he

422
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:44,970
did once he got the contract was he sort

423
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:48,720
of stepped aside and and hired and of an

424
00:17:53,810 --> 00:17:51,410
executive director to run everything and

425
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,820
then they got these papers that

426
00:17:58,790 --> 00:17:55,440
everybody's probably heard about these

427
00:18:03,320 --> 00:17:58,800
goes 34 papers research papers that were

428
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:03,330
done by various scientists for aspects

429
00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:05,640
of areas that they thought should be

430
00:18:10,220 --> 00:18:07,380
investigated in relationship to this

431
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:10,230
phenomenon and so Bigelow one what's the

432
00:18:14,180 --> 00:18:12,330
contract came in he wasn't that actively

433
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,190
involved with everything

434
00:18:18,619 --> 00:18:17,039
so home Kelliher who people may have

435
00:18:21,649 --> 00:18:18,629
heard of was the person that sort of

436
00:18:23,389 --> 00:18:21,659
oversaw how everything was going on so

437
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:23,399
I'm and I think the main thing was those

438
00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:25,980
papers and what's interesting about the

439
00:18:30,379 --> 00:18:28,350
papers is that a lot of the scientists

440
00:18:32,869 --> 00:18:30,389
who were asked to do that research did

441
00:18:33,259 --> 00:18:32,879
not know why they were being asked to do

442
00:18:38,389 --> 00:18:33,269
it

443
00:18:41,180 --> 00:18:38,399
somebody who said I'm working for a

444
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:41,190
government program but studying UFOs we

445
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:42,570
want to know this this that or the other

446
00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:45,090
thing they would just not tell them that

447
00:18:50,029 --> 00:18:46,980
but tell them we want to know something

448
00:18:51,499 --> 00:18:50,039
about whatever this particular area was

449
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:51,509
and it didn't have to they didn't have

450
00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:53,490
to disclose the fact that it was

451
00:18:57,409 --> 00:18:55,830
concerning with UFOs so that happened

452
00:18:59,119 --> 00:18:57,419
for a lot of the papers to which I

453
00:19:00,740 --> 00:18:59,129
thought was kind of interesting yeah and

454
00:19:02,869 --> 00:19:00,750
I think everybody knows that Bigelow as

455
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:02,879
a history of interest in this topic and

456
00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:04,950
also they know about needs the work he

457
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:07,230
did the National Institute of discovery

458
00:19:12,409 --> 00:19:10,500
science for many many years and the work

459
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:12,419
he did at the ranch which is of course

460
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:14,730
the in Utah skinwalker ranch which is

461
00:19:18,499 --> 00:19:16,830
fascinating so that's that's basically

462
00:19:20,509 --> 00:19:18,509
what I know about the history of his

463
00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:20,519
relationship to all of this there are a

464
00:19:24,019 --> 00:19:22,769
lot of connections that Leslie and I

465
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,029
there are a lot of aspects that are

466
00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:25,679
similar in terms of our research because

467
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:27,480
we're both in a sense we're outsiders

468
00:19:32,749 --> 00:19:29,490
who got let you decide for a little bit

469
00:19:35,299 --> 00:19:32,759
and not completely inside but we did get

470
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:35,309
a view of what's going on and something

471
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:37,110
that Leslie said is something that I

472
00:19:40,909 --> 00:19:39,450
encountered a lot only certain

473
00:19:43,129 --> 00:19:40,919
scientists knew what they were working

474
00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:43,139
on and they would have a whole bevy of

475
00:19:46,909 --> 00:19:45,059
other scientists who would not have a

476
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:46,919
clue that they were working on things

477
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:49,500
that had to do with the phenomena and I

478
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:50,700
think that's really interesting because

479
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:53,129
that goes into what I call the UFO

480
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,250
fightclub phenomena right the

481
00:20:00,860 --> 00:19:57,840
compartmentalization of this information

482
00:20:02,930 --> 00:20:00,870
so that it would not get out and I think

483
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:02,940
that that's something that I think

484
00:20:06,860 --> 00:20:04,559
ufologists would find that fascinating

485
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:06,870
I'm not making it up you know Leslie

486
00:20:11,659 --> 00:20:09,330
just confirmed that this that again

487
00:20:13,460 --> 00:20:11,669
these people didn't know what they were

488
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:13,470
doing a lot of times you know they were

489
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,929
working on it Colm actually before my

490
00:20:19,970 --> 00:20:18,000
book came out he actually asked he

491
00:20:23,509 --> 00:20:19,980
didn't even know my book was was coming

492
00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:23,519
out about my work in with angels you

493
00:20:27,499 --> 00:20:26,190
know and like the physicality of angels

494
00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:27,509
which I have written about in the

495
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:27,990
Catholic Church

496
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:30,450
and I thought who is this person and why

497
00:20:35,630 --> 00:20:32,490
are they you know this is what this was

498
00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:35,640
before I was hip to what was going on

499
00:20:39,980 --> 00:20:37,920
you know and I thought why do these

500
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:39,990
people want to know about angels of all

501
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:40,559
people

502
00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:43,170
so is it kind of a confusing time for me

503
00:20:46,910 --> 00:20:45,390
to understand that you know what they're

504
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:46,920
doing is they're looking at the history

505
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:50,940
of this type of phenomena and what they

506
00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:53,130
can glean data basically from what they

507
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:55,470
can glean from this stuff historically

508
00:20:59,360 --> 00:20:57,200
and this brings us to an interesting

509
00:21:01,700 --> 00:20:59,370
facet to all this that we've heard

510
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:01,710
rumors about when it comes to how the

511
00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:03,600
you know there's government with a

512
00:21:09,410 --> 00:21:06,990
capital G I guess has dealt with the UFO

513
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:09,420
topic and we've heard that there are

514
00:21:14,570 --> 00:21:11,940
those in the classified world who sort

515
00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:14,580
of worship the quote-unquote phenomenon

516
00:21:18,620 --> 00:21:16,620
this is a Twitter question that we have

517
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:18,630
from Eric from the both of you have you

518
00:21:23,540 --> 00:21:21,570
ever come across these instances where

519
00:21:25,580 --> 00:21:23,550
people in the government have looked at

520
00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:25,590
the UFO topic from such a religious

521
00:21:32,930 --> 00:21:27,960
fashion I guess Diana let's start with

522
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:32,940
you sure they're Redfern you know wrote

523
00:21:38,270 --> 00:21:35,340
about the Collins ooh-ee and I've

524
00:21:42,260 --> 00:21:38,280
actually I know that they they do

525
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,270
actually exist and I also I I think that

526
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,400
they look at this phenomena religiously

527
00:21:48,140 --> 00:21:46,080
okay that doesn't mean they worship it

528
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:48,150
it means that they're looking at this

529
00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:50,400
from the perspective of a religious

530
00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:51,960
framework you know a lot of people have

531
00:21:56,930 --> 00:21:53,940
really spiritual experiences when they

532
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:56,940
have when these events occur and so I

533
00:22:02,270 --> 00:22:00,720
think that within the big G government

534
00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:02,280
it's kind of like the Catholic Church

535
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:04,200
and I'm not a spokesperson for the

536
00:22:07,370 --> 00:22:05,910
Catholic Church or the government but

537
00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:07,380
when you look at each of these

538
00:22:12,919 --> 00:22:10,620
institutions they they are coherent you

539
00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:12,929
know they there are different factions

540
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:15,660
and aspects of each that don't agree and

541
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,970
so you know you have really conservative

542
00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:19,440
Catholics you have really progressive

543
00:22:23,150 --> 00:22:21,240
Catholics they don't agree yeah exactly

544
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:23,160
we always have to keep in mind that like

545
00:22:27,260 --> 00:22:24,720
the people within the government they

546
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:27,270
they're they're individuals you know

547
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:29,250
they're not all under one mindset

548
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:31,050
everyone has their own agenda their own

549
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:32,370
motives their own beliefs

550
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:34,620
so Leslie I guess if you if there's

551
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,330
anything you can add to that in your

552
00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:38,400
work with discovering all this with a

553
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:40,550
tip and the

554
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:43,610
programs with UFOs that did you ever

555
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:46,310
find anything that had religious

556
00:22:51,790 --> 00:22:48,080
undertones to it when it came to all

557
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:51,800
this actually yes I learned that there

558
00:22:56,830 --> 00:22:54,230
is a there are religious Christian

559
00:22:59,710 --> 00:22:56,840
fundamentalists within the Defense

560
00:23:02,110 --> 00:22:59,720
Department and within the Defense

561
00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:02,120
Intelligence Agency right way back when

562
00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:04,940
the thing started that believed that

563
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:07,400
UFOs are connected to the devil

564
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:09,290
literally that they should not be

565
00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:11,450
studied therefore that it's you know

566
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:13,160
it's just something evil about them or

567
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:15,110
dark about them and it just goes against

568
00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:17,150
their religious beliefs and these

569
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:19,160
fundamentalists have done a lot of

570
00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:22,730
damage initially they had played a role

571
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:25,430
in sort of forcing the original director

572
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:28,640
out of position at the you know when he

573
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:30,080
was involved with all of this

574
00:23:36,790 --> 00:23:34,130
since since the program became more of a

575
00:23:38,550 --> 00:23:36,800
DoD program as opposed to a dia program

576
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:38,560
there have been people within that

577
00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:40,910
within the department who had pushed

578
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:43,310
back a great deal on this program and

579
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:44,330
caused a lot of trouble

580
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:46,370
only because of their religious beliefs

581
00:23:52,990 --> 00:23:49,730
and I just found it so hard to believe

582
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:53,000
this when I learned it maybe it's not as

583
00:23:57,550 --> 00:23:54,710
difficult for a Diana to believe this

584
00:24:00,400 --> 00:23:57,560
but for me to believe that that to

585
00:24:03,070 --> 00:24:00,410
recognize and to learn that's people in

586
00:24:06,610 --> 00:24:03,080
positions of power who think that their

587
00:24:09,340 --> 00:24:06,620
personal religious beliefs should govern

588
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:09,350
what gets investigated and especially

589
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:11,600
when these are physical things that are

590
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:13,850
happening and it can potentially be a

591
00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:16,970
threat or you know an inner safety issue

592
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:19,400
and yet they believe that their

593
00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:21,290
religious beliefs which are really just

594
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:23,500
a belief system that they happen to have

595
00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:26,330
that they somehow have the right to feel

596
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:27,950
that they should stop all of these

597
00:24:33,490 --> 00:24:30,350
studies because of that I found that to

598
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:33,500
be really shocking but it's prevalent

599
00:24:37,780 --> 00:24:35,540
and it's true and it's been an issue for

600
00:24:40,450 --> 00:24:37,790
the people working on the program I have

601
00:24:42,610 --> 00:24:40,460
to echo what Lesley says here so I've

602
00:24:44,530 --> 00:24:42,620
met many people who and I even

603
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:44,540
registered this I remember once on

604
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:48,050
Twitter when I was on Twitter that they

605
00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:51,290
have as she said shut down some of the

606
00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:52,950
programs

607
00:24:57,890 --> 00:24:56,070
I think that part of it is motivated to

608
00:24:59,780 --> 00:24:57,900
Here I am a religious studies scholar so

609
00:25:03,110 --> 00:24:59,790
it's kind of speaking to this because

610
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:03,120
not every experience is a pleasant one

611
00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:05,400
you know and people do get like burns

612
00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:07,470
and you know hurt through this and I

613
00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:08,670
think that they believe that this is

614
00:25:13,330 --> 00:25:11,340
evil and so they think they're dealing

615
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:13,340
with something that they can't really

616
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:16,110
you know they can't get their mind

617
00:25:19,850 --> 00:25:17,940
around right but they can they can

618
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:19,860
understand it religiously so I agree

619
00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:21,450
with Leslie that was a shock for me

620
00:25:25,310 --> 00:25:23,790
after my book was finished and I you

621
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:25,320
know it's not like the research stopped

622
00:25:31,670 --> 00:25:28,560
either research is still there and so I

623
00:25:33,530 --> 00:25:31,680
was literally shocked to know this I

624
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:33,540
think just as Leslie was to write and I

625
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:35,220
think one of the things we have to keep

626
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:38,130
in mind too is this recent article that

627
00:25:43,070 --> 00:25:40,260
came out where we learned more about the

628
00:25:45,770 --> 00:25:43,080
the individual studies that were going

629
00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:45,780
on during baths and also in a tip and

630
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:47,900
all these UFO programs is they were

631
00:25:52,910 --> 00:25:50,370
looking at the physical effects that

632
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:52,920
UFOs were having on people and that's

633
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:55,200
huge we're not just talking about lights

634
00:25:59,900 --> 00:25:57,990
in the sky that you know military people

635
00:26:03,200 --> 00:25:59,910
are reporting we're talking about

636
00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:03,210
straight-up physiological effects that

637
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:05,400
these things were having on people so

638
00:26:09,980 --> 00:26:07,530
that that was a big surprise to me I

639
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:09,990
mean what was this anything that the two

640
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:11,610
of you were aware of that they were

641
00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:15,690
looking at I was aware of it yeah I

642
00:26:20,990 --> 00:26:18,030
actually had a section of it in my book

643
00:26:23,810 --> 00:26:21,000
where I mean I'm with Tyler and James

644
00:26:25,810 --> 00:26:23,820
and James is talking about the physical

645
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:25,820
effects he's actually studying them and

646
00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:29,610
I at that during that time created

647
00:26:34,190 --> 00:26:31,260
scared me it kept me up that whole night

648
00:26:36,530 --> 00:26:34,200
because it was so disturbing so there

649
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:36,540
are there a positive physical effects

650
00:26:40,910 --> 00:26:38,850
and there are also some negative they

651
00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:40,920
happen to different people and I think

652
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:42,030
what they're trying to do is find out

653
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:43,290
why they're happening to different

654
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:46,530
people like why why do some populations

655
00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:48,930
have have good effects right or

656
00:26:52,670 --> 00:26:50,520
interesting effects and why do some

657
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:52,680
populations have really negative effects

658
00:26:56,270 --> 00:26:54,510
yeah I think it really comes down to

659
00:26:58,670 --> 00:26:56,280
perspective Leslie do you have anything

660
00:27:00,170 --> 00:26:58,680
to add to that yeah I was just I've been

661
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:00,180
aware of the studies that have been

662
00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:02,610
going on very quietly they've been going

663
00:27:06,130 --> 00:27:05,550
on for a long time and it just to me is

664
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:06,140
one of the most

665
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:07,970
important aspects to study because

666
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:10,970
they're looking into what features of

667
00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:13,310
the brain fill about how features within

668
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,980
the brain relate to the paranormal

669
00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:17,360
experiences that people have after

670
00:27:21,730 --> 00:27:19,940
encounters or whatever whatever you know

671
00:27:23,860 --> 00:27:21,740
whatever draws them to having those

672
00:27:26,020 --> 00:27:23,870
experiences there's a whole realm of

673
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:26,030
research that can be done there that's

674
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:28,490
completely fascinating and I think you

675
00:27:31,930 --> 00:27:29,570
know what's really interesting about

676
00:27:33,580 --> 00:27:31,940
Diana's work this might be something

677
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:33,590
really interesting for you to comment on

678
00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:36,290
diana is you know we've got this the

679
00:27:41,770 --> 00:27:39,020
physicality of the phenomenon which is

680
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:41,780
so well documented and which you are

681
00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:44,210
totally aware of obviously and yet

682
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:45,680
you're also looking at it from this

683
00:27:52,090 --> 00:27:48,170
other perspective of its context within

684
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:52,100
religion and mythology and culture and I

685
00:27:56,830 --> 00:27:54,530
think some people misunderstand your

686
00:27:59,770 --> 00:27:56,840
work and that they think you're saying

687
00:28:02,470 --> 00:27:59,780
that UFOs aren't physically real if they

688
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:02,480
fit into some religious context so it

689
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,710
might be really interesting for you to

690
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:06,320
clarify that for people oh yeah so

691
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:08,510
basically what I'm saying is that we

692
00:28:13,390 --> 00:28:11,210
have someone like Tyler who believes

693
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:13,400
that he's in direct contact with at

694
00:28:21,610 --> 00:28:17,530
least benign ETI right and he has

695
00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:21,620
excellent benefits from it people during

696
00:28:27,460 --> 00:28:24,470
the the nimitz episode some of those

697
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:27,470
people have had some very fascinating

698
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:29,570
After Effects or you know they're

699
00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:32,720
basically contact event after-effects

700
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:35,030
and somebody made a list it may have

701
00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:37,370
been high-neck of the these these

702
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:40,190
effects and they include things like

703
00:28:46,780 --> 00:28:44,000
what appears to be precognition and you

704
00:28:49,690 --> 00:28:46,790
know knowing things and things like that

705
00:28:51,910 --> 00:28:49,700
that are that would be considered kind

706
00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:51,920
of like superhero effects right and then

707
00:28:55,930 --> 00:28:54,110
some people don't have those effects and

708
00:28:59,050 --> 00:28:55,940
have opposite effects and you know

709
00:29:01,480 --> 00:28:59,060
become ill from it so the question is is

710
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:01,490
that and Leslie brings it up you know is

711
00:29:06,610 --> 00:29:03,440
there something physiologically

712
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:06,620
different about these people and I think

713
00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:09,770
that that's a question that that's lots

714
00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:11,030
of people are asking right now I know

715
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:14,620
the Navy is actually do is asking for

716
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,520
proposals to study people who do have

717
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:21,440
they consider they even call it a sixth

718
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:23,090
sense you know and they're trying to

719
00:29:29,260 --> 00:29:27,440
kind of help develop that in and my

720
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:29,270
question is why I mean I know why

721
00:29:32,830 --> 00:29:30,559
they're trying to do that because it

722
00:29:35,230 --> 00:29:32,840
helps soldiers right in battle and

723
00:29:39,370 --> 00:29:35,240
things like that but you know kind of

724
00:29:41,169 --> 00:29:39,380
creating a super soldier but what's been

725
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:41,179
found out is that through some of these

726
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:44,450
encounters this is like this part of

727
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:47,090
somebody's brain is like supercharged

728
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,690
somehow and that's fascinating and I

729
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:52,640
didn't expect it I'm sure Leslie didn't

730
00:29:57,340 --> 00:29:54,950
expect it it's you know once you get

731
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:57,350
into the research it's just mind-blowing

732
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:00,559
and people just then I know after my

733
00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:02,809
book was published a lot of people

734
00:30:07,299 --> 00:30:04,910
contacted me who were part of different

735
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:07,309
military programs and basically said

736
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:09,770
this is what happens to me and you know

737
00:30:15,130 --> 00:30:11,840
and is it I just have so many of these

738
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:15,140
people now so who are I corresponds with

739
00:30:21,820 --> 00:30:18,770
the whole remote viewing project comes

740
00:30:25,299 --> 00:30:21,830
to mind for me and how serious they took

741
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:25,309
this for so long with SR I or the CIA

742
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:30,110
like using people with these these $0.06

743
00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:33,050
as it were to to either weaponize it or

744
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:35,920
use it as a benefit so it is a very

745
00:30:41,049 --> 00:30:38,750
interesting way to look at all this and

746
00:30:42,810 --> 00:30:41,059
I think when we really look at a tip and

747
00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:42,820
everything at the surface these

748
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:45,500
government-funded UFO programs yeah

749
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:48,170
that's fine and that's interesting but

750
00:30:53,710 --> 00:30:50,630
when you really dig deep into what they

751
00:30:56,350 --> 00:30:53,720
were exploring that's when it just blows

752
00:30:58,270 --> 00:30:56,360
everything wide open and the the truth

753
00:30:59,770 --> 00:30:58,280
is far stranger than any fiction we

754
00:31:05,290 --> 00:30:59,780
probably could've thought it was gonna

755
00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:05,300
be definitely hey y'all Ryan Sprague

756
00:31:09,340 --> 00:31:07,070
here as you all know this somewhere in

757
00:31:11,740 --> 00:31:09,350
the skies podcast is always free to

758
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:11,750
consume but it isn't free to create

759
00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:13,910
that's why I've started this somewhere

760
00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:16,190
in the skies patreon campaign you on a

761
00:31:20,590 --> 00:31:18,590
monthly basis you give what you think

762
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:20,600
the show is worth you'll be helping the

763
00:31:25,870 --> 00:31:23,210
show continue grow and to be something

764
00:31:28,270 --> 00:31:25,880
truly communal and remember there are

765
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:28,280
rewards for each level of contribution

766
00:31:33,340 --> 00:31:30,890
and the list is only grown so please

767
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,350
help somewhere in the skies now by

768
00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:35,600
becoming a patron to contribute and to

769
00:31:43,780 --> 00:31:41,240
learn more visit WWE universe skies

770
00:31:49,210 --> 00:31:43,790
thank you for your support and now on

771
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:49,220
with the show well we we talked about

772
00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:51,710
you know these things harming people the

773
00:31:55,930 --> 00:31:53,809
the effects on human beings when in

774
00:31:59,680 --> 00:31:55,940
relation to UFOs I act I gotta ask you

775
00:32:01,659 --> 00:31:59,690
to with a tip and with sort of the way

776
00:32:05,230 --> 00:32:01,669
the narrative is being painted today

777
00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:05,240
with those controlling what is getting

778
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:07,220
out there to the mainstream we're seeing

779
00:32:11,860 --> 00:32:09,890
UFOs as a threat this is a threat threat

780
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:11,870
threat threat threat we can't stop

781
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:13,700
hearing about this so I got to ask

782
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:15,350
between the two of you what are your

783
00:32:19,870 --> 00:32:17,690
personal thoughts on this sort of one

784
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:19,880
angle or a narrative that seems to be

785
00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:22,490
painted by the way the military looks at

786
00:32:27,730 --> 00:32:25,400
all this I mean I I just I think it's

787
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:27,740
important for people to understand that

788
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:30,050
the Department of Defense the job of the

789
00:32:33,970 --> 00:32:31,760
Department of Defense is to protect the

790
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:33,980
American people and that's what they do

791
00:32:38,860 --> 00:32:36,530
and so if there's going to be a program

792
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:38,870
set up within that department to study

793
00:32:44,620 --> 00:32:42,290
this it has to fit that framework it has

794
00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:44,630
to have some kind of agenda at least as

795
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:47,990
its presented officially that will fit

796
00:32:53,380 --> 00:32:49,790
into the Mandate of the Department of

797
00:32:55,510 --> 00:32:53,390
Defense so naturally this has to be

798
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:55,520
associated with some kind of a threat

799
00:32:59,890 --> 00:32:56,960
and ordered for them to be able to

800
00:33:01,480 --> 00:32:59,900
operate a program like this and I think

801
00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:01,490
I mean I remember that was one of the

802
00:33:06,130 --> 00:33:04,190
first questions I asked Elizondo about

803
00:33:08,650 --> 00:33:06,140
during the time when he first left the

804
00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:08,660
Pentagon was this whole thing about you

805
00:33:14,530 --> 00:33:11,320
know the the name threat being in the

806
00:33:17,380 --> 00:33:14,540
title of the program and he's concerned

807
00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:17,390
about these objects could be a possible

808
00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:21,350
threat or they are a threat and we all

809
00:33:25,690 --> 00:33:23,960
know that there have not been incidences

810
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:25,700
and there's been a couple of cases in

811
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:28,370
which pilots will potentially you know

812
00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:28,930
and with

813
00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:31,590
two cases in my book involving pilots

814
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:34,390
doing sort of battle type things with

815
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:38,080
UFOs but in general UFOs have not been a

816
00:33:43,530 --> 00:33:40,510
threat they have not harmed anyone and

817
00:33:45,570 --> 00:33:43,540
so he explained to me that the word

818
00:33:48,150 --> 00:33:45,580
threat and that's in the scenario with

819
00:33:50,460 --> 00:33:48,160
an agent is only the potential threat

820
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:50,470
that anything that we cannot explain

821
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:52,690
that's operating in our skies that is

822
00:33:56,150 --> 00:33:54,250
completely foreign to us and that

823
00:33:58,820 --> 00:33:56,160
demonstrates extremely sophisticated

824
00:34:01,560 --> 00:33:58,830
technology that interacts with our

825
00:34:04,530 --> 00:34:01,570
aircraft and for instance that the

826
00:34:06,690 --> 00:34:04,540
Roosevelt comes very close to them has

827
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:06,700
to be considered a potential threat but

828
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:08,410
I think the word potential is really

829
00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:10,990
important it's only a potential threat

830
00:34:14,820 --> 00:34:13,240
because we don't know what it is and

831
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:14,830
therefore we don't know what it might do

832
00:34:19,110 --> 00:34:16,810
sometime in the future or we don't know

833
00:34:22,050 --> 00:34:19,120
what kind of accidents might occur with

834
00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:22,060
it not intentional things could happen

835
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:24,190
so that's why they have to frame it that

836
00:34:28,830 --> 00:34:26,770
way and I understand the concept of a

837
00:34:30,210 --> 00:34:28,840
potential threat and I'm talking not so

838
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:30,220
much about what Diana was talking about

839
00:34:34,590 --> 00:34:32,200
a better about effects on individual

840
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:34,600
people I'm talking about interactions in

841
00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:37,210
the sky involving interacting with the

842
00:34:42,390 --> 00:34:39,790
physical objects a whole other level of

843
00:34:44,970 --> 00:34:42,400
this is the implicit you know the impact

844
00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:44,980
on individual people but that's not what

845
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:46,630
the agent program is dealing with it's

846
00:34:51,570 --> 00:34:49,510
more physicality of it things flying

847
00:34:53,700 --> 00:34:51,580
around the skies and they have to see

848
00:34:55,890 --> 00:34:53,710
that as a possible or potential threat

849
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:55,900
but that doesn't mean that Elizondo or

850
00:34:59,310 --> 00:34:57,850
the people involved with the program

851
00:35:01,200 --> 00:34:59,320
that are the people even involved now

852
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:01,210
look at this as some kind of a threat

853
00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:03,280
and are trying to paint it in that way

854
00:35:08,250 --> 00:35:06,100
because they don't that's a sh t yeah I

855
00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:08,260
think that is sort of the biggest debate

856
00:35:13,230 --> 00:35:11,260
now is why are the people involved with

857
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:13,240
a tip and these government burglars only

858
00:35:16,620 --> 00:35:14,890
looking at it that way Leslie so I'm

859
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:16,630
glad you could clear that up for us

860
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:18,250
because I think you're right I think the

861
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:21,430
potential threat is is the problem when

862
00:35:25,530 --> 00:35:23,170
you look at the nimitz event they you

863
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:25,540
have the radar operators and pilots

864
00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:28,240
saying this could have started a war or

865
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:30,310
you look at the case in your book lesley

866
00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:33,310
with Parviz Jafari having a dogfight

867
00:35:38,370 --> 00:35:35,620
with a UFO these are potential threats

868
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:38,380
to the people who are up there to defend

869
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:41,810
us and it could cause harm to them

870
00:35:47,230 --> 00:35:44,690
at their own hand so it might not be

871
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:47,240
that these UFOs want to harm us or hurt

872
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:49,910
us but it's our reaction to them that

873
00:35:54,220 --> 00:35:52,010
could couldn't really do that that is

874
00:35:56,140 --> 00:35:54,230
the reason that people I mean that's one

875
00:35:58,240 --> 00:35:56,150
of the main reasons why this needs to be

876
00:36:00,610 --> 00:35:58,250
made public what you just said about our

877
00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:00,620
reaction to them because for instance

878
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:03,590
commercial pilots if they're not allowed

879
00:36:06,940 --> 00:36:04,910
first of all they're not even allowed to

880
00:36:08,860 --> 00:36:06,950
talk to them at risk but they should be

881
00:36:11,590 --> 00:36:08,870
encouraged to record these things

882
00:36:13,930 --> 00:36:11,600
because and this was a point that the

883
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:13,940
generals and others made in this the

884
00:36:17,650 --> 00:36:15,530
French report called the commander

885
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:17,660
report which is what got me started at

886
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:20,510
all of this in 1990 they made the point

887
00:36:26,170 --> 00:36:23,210
that if pilots aren't educated about

888
00:36:28,330 --> 00:36:26,180
these things there's the risk of some an

889
00:36:30,580 --> 00:36:28,340
accident happening because of their

890
00:36:33,460 --> 00:36:30,590
reactions not because of anything that

891
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:33,470
the UFO is doing but because the pilots

892
00:36:38,770 --> 00:36:37,010
could react in ways of fear or they have

893
00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:38,780
a knee-jerk reaction to do something

894
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:41,240
dangerous and the only reason for that

895
00:36:46,090 --> 00:36:43,310
is that they're not informed they're not

896
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:46,100
given information about the phenomenon

897
00:36:49,540 --> 00:36:47,690
and they're not even allowed to talk

898
00:36:52,930 --> 00:36:49,550
about it so I just wanted to add that

899
00:36:55,540 --> 00:36:52,940
that's a big reason why this needs to be

900
00:36:58,780 --> 00:36:55,550
made public and why the commercial

901
00:37:01,150 --> 00:36:58,790
aviation world needs to become you know

902
00:37:03,220 --> 00:37:01,160
have a better relationship to it and to

903
00:37:05,140 --> 00:37:03,230
encourage their pilots to be educated

904
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:05,150
about it because it's gonna lead to some

905
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:07,010
kind of accident someday if we don't do

906
00:37:09,850 --> 00:37:09,290
that okay Diana sorry for jumping in

907
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:09,860
like that

908
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:13,610
no no Leslie articulated it perfectly in

909
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:15,290
the beginning of my book I think in the

910
00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:18,290
introduction I quote Eric Davis and he

911
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:21,830
basically said you know the fact that we

912
00:37:26,380 --> 00:37:24,560
have unknown things flying around that

913
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:26,390
you know don't look like they're foreign

914
00:37:31,630 --> 00:37:29,210
and don't look like they're ours is a

915
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:31,640
case for the Department of Defense is a

916
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:34,610
military situation and I think that the

917
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:37,910
DoD is doing their job I mean I you know

918
00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:40,400
met so many military people who were

919
00:37:45,610 --> 00:37:43,400
involved and you know it's not

920
00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:45,620
conspiracy against the American people I

921
00:37:49,540 --> 00:37:47,030
think that what they're trying to do is

922
00:37:51,550 --> 00:37:49,550
actually help and defend us and they're

923
00:37:53,470 --> 00:37:51,560
doing their job but I agree with Leslie

924
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:53,480
I think that it baton you know there are

925
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:55,430
too many people who see them

926
00:38:00,640 --> 00:37:56,720
and there are too many people who

927
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:00,650
encounter them for it to stay status quo

928
00:38:07,150 --> 00:38:04,160
I think it's time now to acknowledge and

929
00:38:09,370 --> 00:38:07,160
also to move on and to say that you know

930
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:09,380
we're not in a fight here the American

931
00:38:13,089 --> 00:38:11,119
people are not in a fight with the

932
00:38:14,819 --> 00:38:13,099
military regarding this and you know if

933
00:38:17,170 --> 00:38:14,829
they're keeping something it's it's

934
00:38:19,270 --> 00:38:17,180
they're doing it for a reason you know

935
00:38:21,370 --> 00:38:19,280
we don't ask them to share information

936
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:21,380
about people that were you know at

937
00:38:25,299 --> 00:38:23,510
suppose at war with or something like

938
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:25,309
that because we know that they're doing

939
00:38:29,740 --> 00:38:27,410
that for a reason so we trust them in

940
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:29,750
that respect you know so I agree with

941
00:38:34,569 --> 00:38:31,730
Lesley completely that that the people

942
00:38:36,579 --> 00:38:34,579
that I met at least they were they

943
00:38:38,470 --> 00:38:36,589
believed they were doing their job and I

944
00:38:40,750 --> 00:38:38,480
believe they were doing it too well this

945
00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:40,760
kind of brings me to something that

946
00:38:45,490 --> 00:38:43,940
really I think melds both of the worlds

947
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:45,500
together of what you two are doing in

948
00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:47,569
terms of investigative journalism and

949
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:50,780
research and that's the Vatican the

950
00:38:56,140 --> 00:38:53,510
Vatican has becomes much more vocal I'd

951
00:38:59,650 --> 00:38:56,150
say within the last year so about their

952
00:39:03,130 --> 00:38:59,660
stance on the whole alien question or

953
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:03,140
even UFO cases specifically so I'd love

954
00:39:08,799 --> 00:39:05,839
to hear both of your thoughts on mixing

955
00:39:12,430 --> 00:39:08,809
the largest religious you know

956
00:39:14,109 --> 00:39:12,440
organization in the free world and you

957
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:14,119
know governments around the world when

958
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:16,250
it comes to these topics so I guess

959
00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:18,049
Diana yeah would you mind commenting on

960
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:19,430
what's going on with the Vatican

961
00:39:24,099 --> 00:39:21,530
somewhere you've actually gone to you

962
00:39:26,289 --> 00:39:24,109
into the secret archives and looked at

963
00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:26,299
their stuff okay so I'm not a

964
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:28,190
spokesperson for the Catholic Church and

965
00:39:32,260 --> 00:39:30,410
so I always have to you know qualify

966
00:39:35,140 --> 00:39:32,270
that I do work with them though on

967
00:39:37,569 --> 00:39:35,150
projects and having to do with by

968
00:39:39,579 --> 00:39:37,579
locating Saints and levitating Saints

969
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:39,589
and things like that and I've been there

970
00:39:43,870 --> 00:39:42,079
I was there with Tyler I report about

971
00:39:45,609 --> 00:39:43,880
that in my book and I have seen they

972
00:39:48,910 --> 00:39:45,619
have a space observatory by the way

973
00:39:50,859 --> 00:39:48,920
where they house all information that

974
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:50,869
has to do with space and space research

975
00:39:55,059 --> 00:39:53,119
and that's in Castle Gandolfo which is

976
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:55,069
about an hour and a half outside of Rome

977
00:40:02,829 --> 00:39:57,490
and it's run by brother guy Consolmagno

978
00:40:05,770 --> 00:40:02,839
and he is I believe his Oh what does he

979
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:05,780
do he oh he's a there they're really

980
00:40:08,730 --> 00:40:07,369
looking at meteorites a lot they have a

981
00:40:12,060 --> 00:40:08,740
huge meteorite claw

982
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:12,070
and so they have a giant telescope there

983
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:13,359
but they have a bigger one in Arizona

984
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:15,250
where they actually do a lot of their

985
00:40:20,820 --> 00:40:18,130
work and so what's up with the Vatican

986
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:20,830
and UFOs I think that there is no

987
00:40:26,490 --> 00:40:24,490
official position on UFOs with the

988
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:26,500
Vatican I know that's the case and just

989
00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:28,510
again like the government there are

990
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:30,310
different positions within the Vatican

991
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:32,410
about UFOs I know some people who

992
00:40:37,290 --> 00:40:34,450
believe in them and believe that they

993
00:40:40,290 --> 00:40:37,300
are you know created by God and that

994
00:40:44,010 --> 00:40:40,300
they and that they exist but you do have

995
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:44,020
the Space Observatory there basically

996
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:46,720
running conferences and inviting people

997
00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:48,970
from SETI and from you know all over the

998
00:40:54,510 --> 00:40:51,700
world to talk about the potential once

999
00:40:56,670 --> 00:40:54,520
you know it's out that UFOs exist what

1000
00:40:58,500 --> 00:40:56,680
how is that going to impact religions

1001
00:41:00,240 --> 00:40:58,510
how is it going to impact beliefs and

1002
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:00,250
things like that so they're actively

1003
00:41:06,089 --> 00:41:02,770
studying it and in terms of their

1004
00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:06,099
historical records they're fascinating

1005
00:41:12,359 --> 00:41:09,880
and and as one who has seen them they do

1006
00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:12,369
you actually have a whole what would you

1007
00:41:17,250 --> 00:41:15,220
call it a whole wall of search for

1008
00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:17,260
extraterrestrial intelligence so they do

1009
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:19,900
have that I've seen it and I don't I

1010
00:41:23,550 --> 00:41:21,130
don't know if they're going to open that

1011
00:41:26,070 --> 00:41:23,560
up I would be surprised if they did but

1012
00:41:30,660 --> 00:41:26,080
maybe they will so a lot of people out

1013
00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:30,670
there they believe that there could be a

1014
00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:34,750
connection between the ideas of miracles

1015
00:41:42,359 --> 00:41:39,190
or otherworldly beings or angelic beings

1016
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:42,369
this all somehow being inter connected

1017
00:41:47,130 --> 00:41:43,930
and I would love to get your thoughts

1018
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:47,140
both of you on this since Diana you you

1019
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:49,690
are a professor of religious studies and

1020
00:41:55,230 --> 00:41:51,670
and Leslie you wrote a book all about

1021
00:41:57,089 --> 00:41:55,240
the afterlife this and past lives as

1022
00:41:59,280 --> 00:41:57,099
well this this is a really interesting

1023
00:42:01,410 --> 00:41:59,290
thing that a lot of people haven't

1024
00:42:04,349 --> 00:42:01,420
explored in depth but this idea that

1025
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:04,359
they could be one in the same that these

1026
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:06,400
things we think are supernatural or

1027
00:42:14,490 --> 00:42:10,020
paranormal or spiritual are connected to

1028
00:42:16,890 --> 00:42:14,500
ET so have there been any sort of cases

1029
00:42:20,370 --> 00:42:16,900
or things that either of you have come

1030
00:42:22,650 --> 00:42:20,380
across where this could possibly be the

1031
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:22,660
case and I can

1032
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:24,970
first say that in my book I do explore

1033
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:28,210
that I explore especially with I think

1034
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:31,210
that if your audience is aware of UFOs

1035
00:42:36,810 --> 00:42:33,970
there where ray Hernandez and his

1036
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:36,820
experience with his wife in seeing and

1037
00:42:40,890 --> 00:42:38,530
flying saucers and things like that and

1038
00:42:44,580 --> 00:42:40,900
how his wife who's Catholic interprets

1039
00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:44,590
it as angelic while he agnostic former

1040
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:48,430
atheist interprets it as a you know more

1041
00:42:53,550 --> 00:42:51,010
of a technological UFO type of thing so

1042
00:42:56,940 --> 00:42:53,560
you've got you know two people married

1043
00:43:00,420 --> 00:42:56,950
and two interpretations they're Chris

1044
00:43:03,570 --> 00:43:00,430
Bledsoe goes and INRI examines his own

1045
00:43:05,550 --> 00:43:03,580
Christian religion and identifies that

1046
00:43:08,790 --> 00:43:05,560
it's really about kind of like the

1047
00:43:10,530 --> 00:43:08,800
history of UFO contact and so he

1048
00:43:13,170 --> 00:43:10,540
believes that these things are angelic

1049
00:43:16,770 --> 00:43:13,180
and then you have a character in my book

1050
00:43:19,470 --> 00:43:16,780
who becomes you know from believing

1051
00:43:22,350 --> 00:43:19,480
they're they're UFOs but there is a more

1052
00:43:24,930 --> 00:43:22,360
complicated question than for him as the

1053
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:24,940
book goes on and starts to see them in a

1054
00:43:31,410 --> 00:43:28,450
different light so yeah I see that and

1055
00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:31,420
and I know that Leslie's research goes

1056
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:35,260
on from what she had done to something

1057
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:38,770
completely connected but but in a

1058
00:43:43,290 --> 00:43:40,270
different way you know it's interesting

1059
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:43,300
you say connected because when I first

1060
00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:45,910
started researching the book my book

1061
00:43:50,850 --> 00:43:48,340
surviving death which came out in 2017

1062
00:43:53,730 --> 00:43:50,860
which deals with issues related to

1063
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:53,740
consciousness and you know near-death

1064
00:43:58,140 --> 00:43:56,530
experiences and a lot of stuff exploring

1065
00:44:00,720 --> 00:43:58,150
the possibility that consciousness

1066
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:00,730
survives death I actually didn't see

1067
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:03,550
that to be at all connected with UFOs

1068
00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:06,400
when I started I thought it's just

1069
00:44:10,050 --> 00:44:08,020
something completely different than I'm

1070
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:10,060
doing now and in a lot of ways it was

1071
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:12,490
very different because my work with UFOs

1072
00:44:16,350 --> 00:44:14,170
always focus just on the physical

1073
00:44:17,940 --> 00:44:16,360
aspects of it although I knew I knew

1074
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:17,950
about other aspects of it I didn't

1075
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:19,510
really bring them into my professional

1076
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:22,750
work and so as I went along with this I

1077
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:24,910
started to sense that there was some

1078
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:27,370
connection and then Diana's book really

1079
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:29,890
opened me up to that reality that there

1080
00:44:34,110 --> 00:44:32,110
is a connection and I'm really

1081
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:34,120
interested now in trying to find out

1082
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,770
more about

1083
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:36,720
that is I've been exploring the work of

1084
00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:39,330
Jeffrey from Rice University who

1085
00:44:43,870 --> 00:44:42,060
writes a lot about issues that that show

1086
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:43,880
how they all interconnect how

1087
00:44:49,220 --> 00:44:46,050
experienced people have having UFO

1088
00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:49,230
experiences are similar to all kinds of

1089
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:50,820
other kinds of paranormal experiences

1090
00:44:56,690 --> 00:44:55,110
that people have so I think that's sort

1091
00:44:59,210 --> 00:44:56,700
of one of the cutting-edge questions

1092
00:45:02,060 --> 00:44:59,220
right now and I think Diana's book set

1093
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:02,070
this off really is finding the way that

1094
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:05,130
all of these things interact that UFOs

1095
00:45:11,540 --> 00:45:08,400
relate to consciousness the UFOs in some

1096
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:11,550
way relate to near-death experiences and

1097
00:45:15,950 --> 00:45:14,610
other aspects of consciousness existing

1098
00:45:18,250 --> 00:45:15,960
without a body and all the kinds of

1099
00:45:21,380 --> 00:45:18,260
paranormal experiences that people have

1100
00:45:23,660 --> 00:45:21,390
and I'm really new to all - looking at

1101
00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:23,670
it all that way but I'm interested in

1102
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:26,700
exploring that connection a lot more and

1103
00:45:31,340 --> 00:45:28,290
you know one thing that does come to

1104
00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:31,350
mind is that that UFOs seem to be if

1105
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:33,630
some kind of interdimensional thing at

1106
00:45:37,550 --> 00:45:35,070
least for a lot of the sightings that

1107
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:37,560
are reported not just the beams but also

1108
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,660
the craft themselves and the way they

1109
00:45:43,850 --> 00:45:41,520
behave that they can just disappear for

1110
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:43,860
instance almost people describe them as

1111
00:45:47,660 --> 00:45:45,690
almost going into some kind of a portal

1112
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,670
or something and Whitley Strieber has

1113
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:49,680
written about the fact that the UFOs

1114
00:45:54,830 --> 00:45:51,690
exists in some other dimension which

1115
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:54,840
could potentially be the same one that

1116
00:45:59,120 --> 00:45:57,390
people go to when they die or the same

1117
00:46:01,100 --> 00:45:59,130
one that people visit when they have a

1118
00:46:03,020 --> 00:46:01,110
near-death experience where they die and

1119
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:03,030
have an experience of the afterlife and

1120
00:46:07,460 --> 00:46:03,960
then come back

1121
00:46:09,350 --> 00:46:07,470
so the interred in dimensionality of all

1122
00:46:10,130 --> 00:46:09,360
of it is sort of an interesting place to

1123
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:10,140
start

1124
00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:12,480
I think Diana's gone way beyond that but

1125
00:46:16,340 --> 00:46:14,430
I'm just sort of beginning to learn more

1126
00:46:19,610 --> 00:46:16,350
and more about this and I I think it's

1127
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:19,620
really really fascinating yes so I have

1128
00:46:25,070 --> 00:46:22,530
to agree when I first started to talk to

1129
00:46:27,620 --> 00:46:25,080
people who have had experiences a lot of

1130
00:46:30,830 --> 00:46:27,630
them would also have these experiences

1131
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:30,840
at a place of a location where what if

1132
00:46:35,870 --> 00:46:33,780
their loved ones passed away or died and

1133
00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:35,880
this was an incredibly poignant to hear

1134
00:46:40,940 --> 00:46:38,760
Chris Bledsoe comes to mind he lives

1135
00:46:43,820 --> 00:46:40,950
near me and I know his experience inside

1136
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:43,830
now he had before he was married to his

1137
00:46:47,540 --> 00:46:45,390
current wife he had a wife who passed

1138
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:47,550
away in a car accident

1139
00:46:57,260 --> 00:46:52,970
and he had an experience of see a UFO

1140
00:46:59,260 --> 00:46:57,270
right where she passed away and this is

1141
00:47:02,510 --> 00:46:59,270
something that I've seen as a pattern in

1142
00:47:05,210 --> 00:47:02,520
UFO experiences and don't ask me if I

1143
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:05,220
know what it means I do not but you have

1144
00:47:10,070 --> 00:47:07,530
to take it as data because it happens so

1145
00:47:11,180 --> 00:47:10,080
frequently and whitley strieber and jeff

1146
00:47:13,490 --> 00:47:11,190
Cripe well actually whitley strieber

1147
00:47:15,590 --> 00:47:13,500
actually writes about it a lot and it

1148
00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:15,600
was his wife and he basically said I

1149
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:17,640
think that this is this phenomena has

1150
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:20,400
something to do with death and i-i've

1151
00:47:25,250 --> 00:47:23,370
never forgotten that and their book the

1152
00:47:27,940 --> 00:47:25,260
supernatural is really interesting and

1153
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:27,950
Whitley is a funny guy he actually is

1154
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:31,530
he's got a sense of humor and about this

1155
00:47:36,580 --> 00:47:34,290
phenomena and he writes about you know

1156
00:47:39,530 --> 00:47:36,590
having these experiences and seeing

1157
00:47:41,660 --> 00:47:39,540
people who were passed away while he was

1158
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:41,670
having these experiences and he said and

1159
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:44,400
and you know list me with those who have

1160
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:47,190
had UFO experiences and have seen the

1161
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:49,770
dead right so I mean it's really very

1162
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:51,780
strange and I agree with Leslie that is

1163
00:47:59,150 --> 00:47:55,650
the most a lot of the behavior of the

1164
00:48:01,340 --> 00:47:59,160
crafts look interdimensional and what

1165
00:48:02,690 --> 00:48:01,350
does that even mean you know so that's

1166
00:48:04,010 --> 00:48:02,700
where we have to talk with scientists

1167
00:48:06,260 --> 00:48:04,020
and bring them in it's an

1168
00:48:08,570 --> 00:48:06,270
interdisciplinary research project here

1169
00:48:10,910 --> 00:48:08,580
is you know what we're looking at

1170
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:10,920
biological as well you know because it

1171
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:13,440
the way it yes and do certain people

1172
00:48:17,930 --> 00:48:15,690
with certain brain characteristics or in

1173
00:48:20,300 --> 00:48:17,940
a the ones that have that connection to

1174
00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:20,310
all of this as opposed to somebody else

1175
00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:22,200
who doesn't have that kind of a brain so

1176
00:48:26,810 --> 00:48:24,180
that's it does it is it's like a

1177
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:26,820
massively huge question for all these

1178
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:29,520
disciplines to come together on and it's

1179
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:31,290
just so unfortunate that there's this

1180
00:48:37,340 --> 00:48:34,650
taboo still exists and so that there

1181
00:48:39,260 --> 00:48:37,350
isn't money provided by the you know by

1182
00:48:41,540 --> 00:48:39,270
the standard sources at least for

1183
00:48:44,060 --> 00:48:41,550
scientific research to to allow these

1184
00:48:45,770 --> 00:48:44,070
things to happen people just have to

1185
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:45,780
take them on on their own and they're

1186
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:48,480
very private about it and so maybe

1187
00:48:53,420 --> 00:48:51,630
someday there will be a recognition of

1188
00:48:55,430 --> 00:48:53,430
the value of all of this and it can be

1189
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:55,440
funded and we can really learn a lot

1190
00:48:59,840 --> 00:48:58,170
from that I think you know hearing that

1191
00:49:00,520 --> 00:48:59,850
both of you are exploring these other

1192
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:00,530
avenues

1193
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:03,440
along with other scientists journalists

1194
00:49:07,780 --> 00:49:05,690
and even the military this idea that

1195
00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:07,790
when we're dealing with the UFOs it's

1196
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:11,720
not just aliens III I have grown so

1197
00:49:16,900 --> 00:49:14,210
tired of you know mainstream media

1198
00:49:18,340 --> 00:49:16,910
outlets always going back to this like

1199
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:18,350
we're dealing with little green men

1200
00:49:24,850 --> 00:49:21,440
we're dealing with spaceships from Zeta

1201
00:49:27,690 --> 00:49:24,860
Reticuli it's one tiny tiny tiny

1202
00:49:30,610 --> 00:49:27,700
fraction of what this all could be or or

1203
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:30,620
represent so it's fascinating to know

1204
00:49:35,380 --> 00:49:32,960
that there are still avenues we can go

1205
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:35,390
down to try to find answers because look

1206
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:37,490
what what has it been since the modern

1207
00:49:43,060 --> 00:49:40,610
UFO era began 70 years what not of us

1208
00:49:46,090 --> 00:49:43,070
looking at this as alien in finding

1209
00:49:49,150 --> 00:49:46,100
absolutely no solid verifiable evidence

1210
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:49,160
that that's true so I I think it's

1211
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:51,110
exciting to know that we can look at it

1212
00:49:55,540 --> 00:49:52,400
from different ways we have people

1213
00:49:58,660 --> 00:49:55,550
looking at it as humans from the future

1214
00:50:00,250 --> 00:49:58,670
with future technology we're looking at

1215
00:50:02,350 --> 00:50:00,260
it from a consciousness level where

1216
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:02,360
maybe this is the only way we will

1217
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:04,970
someday interact or communicate with the

1218
00:50:11,020 --> 00:50:08,000
phenomenon at large who knows but it's

1219
00:50:12,970 --> 00:50:11,030
it's exciting to hear that these these

1220
00:50:14,890 --> 00:50:12,980
things are being explored and we can

1221
00:50:17,860 --> 00:50:14,900
only venture a guess as to where it's

1222
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:17,870
going to go but um sort of sort of

1223
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:20,890
wrapping up the UFO side of all this I

1224
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:24,410
I'd love to get some some ideas or

1225
00:50:28,420 --> 00:50:26,510
advice that you would give some of our

1226
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:28,430
younger UFO listeners who are kind of

1227
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:30,800
just getting in to all of this you know

1228
00:50:38,020 --> 00:50:35,090
we have this whole TTS a thing that is

1229
00:50:40,330 --> 00:50:38,030
kind of out there in the media and do

1230
00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:40,340
you think there's room for the rest of

1231
00:50:44,110 --> 00:50:42,110
the UFO world to continue their work

1232
00:50:46,690 --> 00:50:44,120
separately from what these guys are

1233
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:46,700
doing and what advice would you give

1234
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:49,760
those who want to study UFOs and are

1235
00:50:54,820 --> 00:50:52,250
looking for answers to these huge huge

1236
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:54,830
questions Diana what do you what advice

1237
00:50:58,990 --> 00:50:56,450
would you give to those looking into

1238
00:51:01,630 --> 00:50:59,000
this topic I would start with field

1239
00:51:04,060 --> 00:51:01,640
research so that's what I do so I

1240
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:04,070
started with talking to people who have

1241
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:08,240
had experiences and then from there be

1242
00:51:14,050 --> 00:51:12,170
ready to be incredibly shocked and in

1243
00:51:14,740 --> 00:51:14,060
credit you know have your mind open to

1244
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:14,750
things that you

1245
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:16,610
thought were possible and to

1246
00:51:21,610 --> 00:51:19,250
synchronicities and coincidences and you

1247
00:51:23,350 --> 00:51:21,620
know and to having you know your

1248
00:51:25,390 --> 00:51:23,360
worldview changed I mean that's I think

1249
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:25,400
what you have to be prepared to do I

1250
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:27,290
wasn't prepared for that and it happened

1251
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:30,710
anyway so I loved Leslie's book because

1252
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:33,200
it was a grounder for me and you know

1253
00:51:37,900 --> 00:51:35,450
read people's books like Leslie's books

1254
00:51:39,610 --> 00:51:37,910
like Jacques valets books like your book

1255
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:39,620
Ryan that talks about the human

1256
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:42,890
experiences you know of this you need to

1257
00:51:47,590 --> 00:51:45,290
read those books and listen to

1258
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:47,600
interviews in podcasts of people who are

1259
00:51:51,790 --> 00:51:49,490
doing it and you'll naturally find your

1260
00:51:54,430 --> 00:51:51,800
way Leslie how about you is there any

1261
00:51:57,310 --> 00:51:54,440
any advice you could give those who are

1262
00:52:02,470 --> 00:51:57,320
trying to find answers to all of this

1263
00:52:04,780 --> 00:52:02,480
yeah it's complete sense to me I think I

1264
00:52:07,060 --> 00:52:04,790
would advise people to be very careful

1265
00:52:10,180 --> 00:52:07,070
about exploring this on the internet

1266
00:52:12,100 --> 00:52:10,190
because there is so much stuff out there

1267
00:52:14,290 --> 00:52:12,110
that's just based on supposition or

1268
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:14,300
conspiracy theories and people making

1269
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:16,010
all kinds of assumptions about what they

1270
00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:18,890
are and you know you've got to be very

1271
00:52:25,390 --> 00:52:22,190
careful to be listening to the right

1272
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:25,400
people to very reliable people I think

1273
00:52:28,660 --> 00:52:27,440
the experience our realm is different

1274
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:28,670
because people are sharing their own

1275
00:52:34,620 --> 00:52:30,410
personal experiences but when you come

1276
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:34,630
to it comes to sort of data about what

1277
00:52:39,130 --> 00:52:37,370
UFOs are and stuff like that you've just

1278
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:39,140
got to be really careful I think people

1279
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:41,390
probably know that you know it's

1280
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:43,670
interesting too we're talking about the

1281
00:52:48,910 --> 00:52:46,490
issue of UFOs expanding well beyond just

1282
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:48,920
the physicality of it and how I'm

1283
00:52:55,090 --> 00:52:52,250
interested in that I still have to say

1284
00:52:56,830 --> 00:52:55,100
that in terms of the work that I do and

1285
00:52:59,620 --> 00:52:56,840
what I'm going to put out there and

1286
00:53:01,780 --> 00:52:59,630
continue to put out there through places

1287
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:01,790
like the New York Times has to be

1288
00:53:08,020 --> 00:53:05,210
focused on that level because the only

1289
00:53:10,300 --> 00:53:08,030
reason that the story in December 2017

1290
00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:10,310
has such an impact and allowed like

1291
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:12,260
briefings to occur within congressional

1292
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:14,570
committees and things like that was

1293
00:53:20,770 --> 00:53:16,730
because it was just so purely factual

1294
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:20,780
and government oriented and so my job is

1295
00:53:25,450 --> 00:53:22,610
to continue to put things out there that

1296
00:53:26,620 --> 00:53:25,460
are just like that that are simple and

1297
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:26,630
physical and

1298
00:53:33,940 --> 00:53:30,609
data-driven so that I can continue to

1299
00:53:36,039 --> 00:53:33,950
get people in the policy-making world

1300
00:53:37,630 --> 00:53:36,049
and the scientific world in the

1301
00:53:40,450 --> 00:53:37,640
governmental world I'm all of that to

1302
00:53:42,609 --> 00:53:40,460
take up the subject seriously because

1303
00:53:45,839 --> 00:53:42,619
you know the work that Diana does goes

1304
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:45,849
way beyond just sort of a simple like

1305
00:53:52,329 --> 00:53:50,210
level UFO 101 which is hey there's

1306
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,339
physical things out there that exist

1307
00:53:56,349 --> 00:53:54,559
that's basically the inventives that I

1308
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:56,359
have to keep giving out through my work

1309
00:54:00,519 --> 00:53:58,400
and I'm gonna continue to do that so

1310
00:54:02,499 --> 00:54:00,529
that I can't bring a lot of the other

1311
00:54:04,210 --> 00:54:02,509
elements of this into the Articles that

1312
00:54:06,099 --> 00:54:04,220
I write but that doesn't mean they're

1313
00:54:08,799 --> 00:54:06,109
not extremely important and that they

1314
00:54:11,170 --> 00:54:08,809
that they're not the future of where we

1315
00:54:12,759 --> 00:54:11,180
need to go it's just that I have to be

1316
00:54:15,309 --> 00:54:12,769
careful what I say so that I can keep

1317
00:54:19,019 --> 00:54:15,319
doing the job that I'm doing which is to

1318
00:54:21,789 --> 00:54:19,029
reach important people with very basic

1319
00:54:23,859 --> 00:54:21,799
unarguable facts about the fact that the

1320
00:54:26,859 --> 00:54:23,869
thing exists in the first place right I

1321
00:54:29,710 --> 00:54:26,869
think what's really important is in our

1322
00:54:32,890 --> 00:54:29,720
world today 2020 post New York Times

1323
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,900
article and mainstream really starting

1324
00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:34,640
to take this topic more seriously is

1325
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:39,470
that we can now say UFOs exist and I

1326
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:41,690
think that's you know can't even be

1327
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:44,569
argued at this point now the question is

1328
00:54:49,539 --> 00:54:46,670
what are they what do they represent

1329
00:54:52,539 --> 00:54:49,549
what do they want and that's that's a

1330
00:54:54,759 --> 00:54:52,549
huge shift since you know we started

1331
00:54:58,690 --> 00:54:54,769
looking at this topic and phenomenon

1332
00:55:01,390 --> 00:54:58,700
some 170 years ago even dating way way

1333
00:55:04,329 --> 00:55:01,400
back before that but um this question of

1334
00:55:06,309 --> 00:55:04,339
you know do have do UFOs exist yes we

1335
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,319
know that know there's definitive proof

1336
00:55:10,210 --> 00:55:08,240
and documentation of that by our

1337
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:10,220
governments now where do we go after

1338
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:12,890
that so I want to ask you both sort of

1339
00:55:17,559 --> 00:55:15,049
wrapping wrapping up the the bigger

1340
00:55:19,809 --> 00:55:17,569
questions here with all of your research

1341
00:55:22,359 --> 00:55:19,819
and your the relationships you've made

1342
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:22,369
the stories you've heard what are each

1343
00:55:28,029 --> 00:55:25,130
of your personal best educated

1344
00:55:30,460 --> 00:55:28,039
hypotheses on the nature of these

1345
00:55:32,890 --> 00:55:30,470
phenomenon or or is there even one

1346
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:32,900
answer to it I I would I would guess not

1347
00:55:36,460 --> 00:55:34,400
but I'd love to hear both their thoughts

1348
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:36,470
on that you know that's a giant question

1349
00:55:48,859 --> 00:55:44,770
I want just to take a moment here and

1350
00:55:52,310 --> 00:55:48,869
credit Leslie with you know changing the

1351
00:55:54,460 --> 00:55:52,320
direction of UFO research here what

1352
00:55:58,550 --> 00:55:54,470
she's done is momentous and

1353
00:56:01,310 --> 00:55:58,560
unprecedented and I just want to you

1354
00:56:03,020 --> 00:56:01,320
know acknowledge that because you know

1355
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:03,030
it came out it looked you know the

1356
00:56:06,890 --> 00:56:05,970
article it blew everybody's minds and I

1357
00:56:08,540 --> 00:56:06,900
was like wow

1358
00:56:10,670 --> 00:56:08,550
Leslie Kane has done something

1359
00:56:11,420 --> 00:56:10,680
incredible and I think we need to

1360
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:11,430
acknowledge that

1361
00:56:17,180 --> 00:56:14,490
so before I answer you know what the the

1362
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:17,190
next type of thing is I think that that

1363
00:56:22,010 --> 00:56:19,650
has to be acknowledged and you know she

1364
00:56:24,740 --> 00:56:22,020
really made the way for my book to come

1365
00:56:26,630 --> 00:56:24,750
and my book was you know published so

1366
00:56:30,050 --> 00:56:26,640
you know the timing was impeccable

1367
00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:30,060
right after she opened the gate and my

1368
00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:32,190
my next book is just gonna be focusing

1369
00:56:36,770 --> 00:56:34,920
on people that I'd met that are along

1370
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:36,780
the same lines as Tyler and James and

1371
00:56:42,770 --> 00:56:39,770
I'm gonna be focusing more on the

1372
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:42,780
cognition that seems to allow for a

1373
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:45,510
contact Leslie do you have anything to

1374
00:56:50,690 --> 00:56:48,000
add to that in in terms of where you lay

1375
00:56:53,660 --> 00:56:50,700
personally you know we have your

1376
00:56:55,940 --> 00:56:53,670
investigative journalism that we we've

1377
00:56:57,589 --> 00:56:55,950
seen throughout the years but what are

1378
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,599
your personal thoughts on the nature of

1379
00:57:01,370 --> 00:56:59,040
the phenomenon if that's something

1380
00:57:04,310 --> 00:57:01,380
you're comfortable sharing I basically

1381
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:04,320
feel that it's something huge that we

1382
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:06,510
don't understand we don't know what it

1383
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:09,089
is and I think all the questions are

1384
00:57:12,260 --> 00:57:10,650
really compelling we've been discussing

1385
00:57:17,210 --> 00:57:12,270
what those questions are that need to be

1386
00:57:19,660 --> 00:57:17,220
studied and it's just this massive big

1387
00:57:23,690 --> 00:57:19,670
mystery that's what makes it exciting

1388
00:57:26,089 --> 00:57:23,700
but I'm just aware of how big it is and

1389
00:57:28,099 --> 00:57:26,099
how much we don't understand about it I

1390
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:28,109
mean there's the physical element of it

1391
00:57:33,170 --> 00:57:30,810
the ativ element which is what I focus

1392
00:57:36,290 --> 00:57:33,180
on in my professional life but there's

1393
00:57:40,070 --> 00:57:36,300
also a way bigger element to it and

1394
00:57:42,260 --> 00:57:40,080
which diana has written about and people

1395
00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:42,270
like jockle am writing about it for

1396
00:57:46,329 --> 00:57:42,720
years

1397
00:57:48,890 --> 00:57:46,339
so it's just I don't know what it is and

1398
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:48,900
I hope we can just keep learning more

1399
00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:51,690
about it the more we know the less we

1400
00:57:53,900 --> 00:57:52,500
know

1401
00:57:56,540 --> 00:57:53,910
really comes into play with this

1402
00:57:57,859 --> 00:57:56,550
phenomenon and that's exciting you know

1403
00:57:59,630 --> 00:57:57,869
I think the journey is far more

1404
00:58:02,359 --> 00:57:59,640
rewarding and trying to find answers

1405
00:58:04,900 --> 00:58:02,369
than possibly finding those answers

1406
00:58:07,540 --> 00:58:04,910
maybe I'm wrong I don't know but um I

1407
00:58:09,620 --> 00:58:07,550
want to sort of close up here and ask

1408
00:58:11,660 --> 00:58:09,630
you both aren't going to be speaking at

1409
00:58:14,420 --> 00:58:11,670
contact in the desert I'll be there as

1410
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:14,430
well this is going to be in Indian Wells

1411
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:17,609
California is there any anything you're

1412
00:58:20,660 --> 00:58:19,170
willing to share with us about what you

1413
00:58:24,260 --> 00:58:20,670
both will be talking about at this event

1414
00:58:26,510 --> 00:58:24,270
I'm gonna be doing a lecture about I've

1415
00:58:28,849 --> 00:58:26,520
called it UFOs journalism and the New

1416
00:58:31,130 --> 00:58:28,859
York Times just about my career covering

1417
00:58:32,990 --> 00:58:31,140
this as a journalist what I've learned

1418
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:33,000
along the way and then I'm going to

1419
00:58:38,030 --> 00:58:34,980
discuss the whole New York Times story

1420
00:58:40,220 --> 00:58:38,040
how it happened what it meant what the

1421
00:58:42,349 --> 00:58:40,230
process was like and allow people to ask

1422
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:42,359
a lot of questions about it and then my

1423
00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:44,970
second presentation is on surviving

1424
00:58:49,490 --> 00:58:46,500
death the book that I wrote that came

1425
00:58:52,820 --> 00:58:49,500
out in 2017 which covers a whole lot of

1426
00:58:55,250 --> 00:58:52,830
aspects of consciousness in relation to

1427
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:55,260
the question of whether we survive death

1428
00:58:59,390 --> 00:58:57,330
a lot of evidence for that as well as my

1429
00:59:01,670 --> 00:58:59,400
own personal experiences which I'll

1430
00:59:03,079 --> 00:59:01,680
share about that yeah so that's that's

1431
00:59:05,329 --> 00:59:03,089
basically what I'm gonna do I just

1432
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:05,339
wanted to thank Diana for her her

1433
00:59:10,820 --> 00:59:08,160
comment about my my story and the times

1434
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:10,830
which is not my story it was a threeway

1435
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:12,720
story three people were involved in

1436
00:59:18,710 --> 00:59:14,609
writing it but I also wanted to say you

1437
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:18,720
know I think that her book is just I

1438
00:59:24,410 --> 00:59:21,330
think it was so important her book

1439
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,420
because it opened up the door to the

1440
00:59:29,329 --> 00:59:26,640
academic community the scientific

1441
00:59:31,730 --> 00:59:29,339
community the government community the

1442
00:59:34,550 --> 00:59:31,740
door to the sort of weirder aspects of

1443
00:59:36,980 --> 00:59:34,560
this and the bigger questions about it

1444
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:36,990
and the historical context for it and

1445
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:39,810
all of that was presented in a way that

1446
00:59:43,790 --> 00:59:41,730
made it accessible to very very

1447
00:59:45,910 --> 00:59:43,800
high-level intelligent people and I know

1448
00:59:48,380 --> 00:59:45,920
that it's being read at those levels and

1449
00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:48,390
it was a game changer in that way

1450
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:50,430
because we've had discussions about

1451
00:59:53,660 --> 00:59:52,050
these things off and on for a long time

1452
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:53,670
but she pulled together and added a

1453
00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:55,650
level of insight to it that's never been

1454
01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:58,050
done before so I don't know we're kind

1455
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:00,240
of the mutual praise Society here but I

1456
01:00:05,799 --> 01:00:02,970
just had to acknowledge that I think the

1457
01:00:08,259 --> 01:00:05,809
Diana's book is is really

1458
01:00:10,089 --> 01:00:08,269
really really significant and I hope

1459
01:00:12,699 --> 01:00:10,099
that people who haven't read it will do

1460
01:00:14,559 --> 01:00:12,709
so because it's it's a brilliant book

1461
01:00:16,479 --> 01:00:14,569
and it's a game-changer in the same way

1462
01:00:18,609 --> 01:00:16,489
the New York Times was just in a

1463
01:00:20,620 --> 01:00:18,619
different way but it's a game-changer

1464
01:00:22,809 --> 01:00:20,630
that's the seed that's amazing I mean I

1465
01:00:25,209 --> 01:00:22,819
think if more people took the time to

1466
01:00:26,349 --> 01:00:25,219
build each other up and work off of each

1467
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:26,359
other's work

1468
01:00:30,449 --> 01:00:28,640
we get a lot further in this field and

1469
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:30,459
this goes for any scientific field

1470
01:00:36,609 --> 01:00:34,130
academic field um you know we challenge

1471
01:00:39,130 --> 01:00:36,619
one another and we ask new questions and

1472
01:00:41,859 --> 01:00:39,140
I think that's important or we're not

1473
01:00:44,140 --> 01:00:41,869
gonna get anywhere so I have to agree

1474
01:00:46,799 --> 01:00:44,150
the the contributions you two have made

1475
01:00:51,099 --> 01:00:46,809
to this field in the past few years have

1476
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:51,109
out shown so much that comes before it

1477
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:52,609
and that's not to say that the work by

1478
01:00:57,819 --> 01:00:55,609
many other people isn't appreciated the

1479
01:01:00,160 --> 01:00:57,829
work of Jacques Vallee the work of

1480
01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:00,170
Whitley Strieber everyone all these

1481
01:01:03,729 --> 01:01:01,609
people that have looked at the UFO

1482
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:03,739
phenomenon in every way possible

1483
01:01:10,449 --> 01:01:06,799
every story every hypothesis every

1484
01:01:12,969 --> 01:01:10,459
opinion I think holds some value in the

1485
01:01:15,099 --> 01:01:12,979
greater greater question to all of this

1486
01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:15,109
so I want to first and foremost thank

1487
01:01:19,299 --> 01:01:16,910
both of you for taking the time to do

1488
01:01:21,819 --> 01:01:19,309
this with me today we somehow pulled it

1489
01:01:24,489 --> 01:01:21,829
off and God got together and made this

1490
01:01:26,559 --> 01:01:24,499
happen this digital Roundtable and I

1491
01:01:29,529 --> 01:01:26,569
can't wait to see what the two of you

1492
01:01:31,089 --> 01:01:29,539
come up with next so yeah let's let's

1493
01:01:32,859 --> 01:01:31,099
sort of end here with them

1494
01:01:37,029 --> 01:01:32,869
Diana where can we find out more about

1495
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:37,039
what your you're up to talk about it at

1496
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:39,410
contacted in the desert actually the

1497
01:01:45,699 --> 01:01:42,319
next book is I'm writing up the proposal

1498
01:01:47,859 --> 01:01:45,709
right now and as I said I'm you know

1499
01:01:50,380 --> 01:01:47,869
I'll be redoing my website and kind of

1500
01:01:53,469 --> 01:01:50,390
talking about what I'll be doing on my

1501
01:01:56,349 --> 01:01:53,479
website and that's probably if people

1502
01:01:58,509 --> 01:01:56,359
want to look it's not up yet but that's

1503
01:02:00,189 --> 01:01:58,519
if they want to find out what neck wet

1504
01:02:01,419 --> 01:02:00,199
is next that's what it's going to be

1505
01:02:03,849 --> 01:02:01,429
this they're also going to be a kind of

1506
01:02:07,439 --> 01:02:03,859
a historical look at people who have

1507
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:07,449
made use of this type of cognitive

1508
01:02:11,769 --> 01:02:09,890
talents I guess you could call it in the

1509
01:02:14,949 --> 01:02:11,779
past you know there have been people in

1510
01:02:18,429 --> 01:02:14,959
the scientific community in the 1600s

1511
01:02:20,030 --> 01:02:18,439
1700s 1800s on up that have actually

1512
01:02:22,130 --> 01:02:20,040
known about this thing and used

1513
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:22,140
so that's another thing that people

1514
01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:24,570
don't realize and don't you know it's

1515
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:27,240
like a part of history that's untold so

1516
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:29,130
I think that's fascinating and and my

1517
01:02:34,100 --> 01:02:31,050
book looks at that and brings it up I'm

1518
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:34,110
gonna spend some time on a soldier or a

1519
01:02:40,580 --> 01:02:37,530
marine and his his training into this

1520
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:40,590
that's very exciting I can't wait to

1521
01:02:44,660 --> 01:02:42,810
learn more about that Leslie where can

1522
01:02:47,390 --> 01:02:44,670
we find out more of what you're up to I

1523
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:47,400
would say my facebook page which is um

1524
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:49,410
you know an author page they'd have to

1525
01:02:53,690 --> 01:02:51,810
be a friend you just go on and I have a

1526
01:02:57,710 --> 01:02:53,700
website which is surviving death can

1527
01:02:59,450 --> 01:02:57,720
calm my last name is Kea n but I think

1528
01:03:02,000 --> 01:02:59,460
the best place is probably my Facebook

1529
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:02,010
page this has been a dream come true for

1530
01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:04,890
me so um thank you to both of you for

1531
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:06,540
coming on somewhere in the skies today

1532
01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:08,850
Thank You Ryan it's been great yeah I'm

1533
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:10,380
really good how many people do it again

1534
01:03:16,730 --> 01:03:14,850
sometimes it's great that's it for this

1535
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:16,740
week's episode my special thanks to both

1536
01:03:21,740 --> 01:03:19,290
Leslie Cain and Diana Walsh basillica

1537
01:03:23,570 --> 01:03:21,750
for coming on the show it was truly an

1538
01:03:26,090 --> 01:03:23,580
honor talking with two of the people who

1539
01:03:27,710 --> 01:03:26,100
I personally believe have moved UFOs to

1540
01:03:30,290 --> 01:03:27,720
the forefront both in the worlds of

1541
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:30,300
journalism and academia like never

1542
01:03:33,110 --> 01:03:30,810
before

1543
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:33,120
be sure to join me next week where the

1544
01:03:37,790 --> 01:03:35,370
conversation continues with Leslie Cain

1545
01:03:40,790 --> 01:03:37,800
where we will be discussing in depth her

1546
01:03:42,860 --> 01:03:40,800
new book surviving death we'll be joined

1547
01:03:44,540 --> 01:03:42,870
by another special guest for what turned

1548
01:03:46,700 --> 01:03:44,550
out to be one of the most powerful and

1549
01:03:49,340 --> 01:03:46,710
compelling discussions they've ever

1550
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:49,350
conducted on the podcast if you have a

1551
01:03:54,380 --> 01:03:51,450
few moments please subscribe rate and

1552
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:54,390
review the show on Apple podcasts your

1553
01:03:58,370 --> 01:03:56,130
Android apps or wherever you get the

1554
01:04:00,740 --> 01:03:58,380
show it helps us gain visibility and

1555
01:04:02,900 --> 01:04:00,750
finding listeners we're on twitter at

1556
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:02,910
summer skies and instagram at summer

1557
01:04:07,529 --> 01:04:05,130
skies pod be sure to get your tickets

1558
01:04:10,589 --> 01:04:07,539
now for contact in the dead

1559
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:10,599
they are going super quick to learn more

1560
01:04:16,109 --> 01:04:12,970
and to get your tickets visit contact in

1561
01:04:18,269 --> 01:04:16,119
the desert calm if you have a UFO story

1562
01:04:20,519 --> 01:04:18,279
you'd like to share or to contact me

1563
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:20,529
personally use the contact tab on the

1564
01:04:26,309 --> 01:04:24,160
website somewhere in the sconce calm my

1565
01:04:29,460 --> 01:04:26,319
special thanks to the e1 podcast network

1566
01:04:31,140 --> 01:04:29,470
rogue planet and especially to you for

1567
01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:31,150
listening I'll see you here next week

1568
01:04:35,039 --> 01:04:33,249
and remember keep your feet on the

1569
01:04:44,310 --> 01:04:35,049
ground but never stop searching

1570
01:05:17,470 --> 01:05:15,460
[Music]

1571
01:05:19,940 --> 01:05:17,480
[Applause]

1572
01:05:21,710 --> 01:05:19,950
somewhere in the skies is produced by

1573
01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:21,720
Third Kind productions in association

1574
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:23,640
with the entertainment one podcast